Superior Rune of [Attribute] - Guild Wars Forums

kawaSuwi · Jul 19, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I remember when I first started to play GW. If I believe correctly it was apt to adopt the Superior Rune. For a good while now, though, people have opted for the Minor Attribute rune - so as to not have to put up with negative 75HP.

As for as I know, a standard solid build is one in which we concentrate on 2 attributes (x and y, respectively) and have Minor runes in both x and y. Maybe this includes 3 attributes. This is besides the point however...

My main question is to do with someone making their own build which relies on two attributes. Let us say, Crit Strikes and Dagg Mast. Would people generally go with two minors and not have any HP loss, or would someone have a Sup in there?

Thankyou.

Kendil · Jul 19, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

It kinda depends, in PvP it is generally a bad idea to have low health, as you are more vulnarable to spikes.

But, if you reach some sort of breakpoint with a minor/sup rune, like that you are able to kill the enemy with your attack chain or that it deals significant more damage, this is for dagger mastery, as it is the attribute that deals the damage.
As for critical strikes, you normally want to reach 13, as you then gain significantly more energy.

In PvE it is mostly up to what you preffer, as long as you don't die, it is all good

Gennadios · Jul 19, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Depends on the build and the format. In PvP, taking sups is almost always suicide.

You can usually get away with taking a superior rune in most PvE areas, SS necros and nukers favor the +3 runes I belive. Personally I don't think the extra 5 damage or 2 seconds duration is ever really worth the hit though.

If you're asking about Sin runes specifically, I'd say it's a bad idea. Melees tend to take alot of punishment, and Sins in particular are pretty squishy, so I'd go for +1s all around.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 19, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Look at breakpoints in the skill/attributes. If that extra attribute point will give you an extra energy per hit, or an extra second in a five or six second spell, or effects like that, it may be worth using a Major or Superior.

GourangaPizza · Jul 19, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

It is a waste not to use a superior rune for your weapon if you are a defy pain warrior.

Captain Bulldozer · Jul 19, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I'd stay away from the superior attribute runes except for farming purposes, generally speaking. However, I have been able to get away with using major runes on paragons and warriors... the health loss is easier to make up with a shield + one handed weap as well as the extra armor. For anything else, especially Dervs and Sins, I'd say stay away from the -75 health.

Chthon · Jul 19, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19

In PvP, there's no question that Sup. runes are a big no-no. Your opponents should have the foresight to build with significant amounts of armor-ignoring damage, the coordination to spike, and the intelligence to figure out that your max hp is low. A Sup. rune is going to get you killed.

In PvE, it's a lot murkier. There's a tradeoff between efficiency and survivability. Essentially you must choose whether the increased DPS(/HPS/WhateverPS) the rune gives you is worth dying each time you take damage that otherwise would have left you alive with <75hp. While there's clear cases on either end of the spectrum -- a Sup. Death Magic rune hits absolutely crucial breakpoints for minion skills; a Sup. Swordsmanship rune doesn't hit any meaningful breakpoints and suffers diminishing returns on its inherent effect -- most cases fall somewhere in the middle where questions of teammates, tactics, player skill, and so forth make it impossible to give a one-size-fits-all rule.

For the record, many, probably most, of my PvE builds use a Sup. rune. Your mileage may vary.

IronSheik · Jul 19, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19

I don't use Supers as a melee because all in all it adds maybe 5 damage per attack skill, and the crits aren't too noticeable in HM.

Paragons I don't use because I'm generally under Agressive refrain, and being midliner you're normally hit before casters.

Rangers I have minor and super sets, depends on what I'm running.

As casters I use supers, minus monk, because you rarely get hit in backline anyway.

Quaker · Jul 19, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

It also depends somewhat (in PvE) on whether it's NM or HM. In Normal Mode, with any decent sort of healing in the party (even henchies), a superior rune can often just make foes die faster and speed things up. In Hard Mode, it's a bit trickier, and minor runes are much "safer".
And, it also, of course, depends somewhat on your build. It depends upon how many skills you are using that actually use a profession's attribute. These days, so many builds include PvE skills that it's really overkill to make a small increase in only one or two skills by using a Superior Rune.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jul 19, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Use sup on everything, cause damage is good amirite.

dasmitchies · Jul 19, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

The only Superior Runes worth using are death magi, earth magic, restoration, and shadow arts. The rest are just used to make a 55hp variant.

teh bestest is here · Jul 20, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

On my warrior all i do is farm FoW usually Solo(beach) and i use 2 superior runes. That leaves me at 361 hp, and i almost never die, though if your teaming, id say 1 superior Max.

RedDog91 · Jul 20, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

if i use a build centered on 2 attributes, i generally craft a +1 helmet of (x attribute) then apply a +3 (y attribute) to that. then i balance attribute points accordingly.

subarucar · Jul 20, 2009, 08:19 AM // 08:19

I usually use a Minor rune, sometimes I will use a major if it helps me reach a breakpoint on an important skill. For certain builds such as farming builds or suicide nukers in JQ/FA I will use superiors.

FengShuiDove · Jul 20, 2009, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Minors on physicals, both PvE and PvP.

Superiors are decent on casters in PvE, but not PvP.

Breakpoints are always something to consider, but giving up health to hit a breakpoint is generally less effective than juggling attributes/armor.

FireWhale · Jul 20, 2009, 10:03 AM // 10:03

I agree with the advice on using whatever you prefer, as long as you don't die.

For me, I use a sup on some chars, and only minors on others. totally depends on how I'm feeling that day...

Feyra Aranor · Jul 20, 2009, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Sidebar: When I started out 3 years ago, I saw runes for sale in Old Ascalon - I thought great !! Attribute +3, and missed the -75. Bought superior fast casting, illusion magic and domination magic runes. Went out to hunt, had only 15 HP, got killed after about two blows, and Alesia henchie couldn't ressurect me! I had to zone back to Ascalon city and salvage the armor to get rid of the runes, as I didn't have the money to replace them with +1's...

Racthoh · Jul 20, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Look at breakpoints in the skill/attributes. If that extra attribute point will give you an extra energy per hit, or an extra second in a five or six second spell, or effects like that, it may be worth using a Major or Superior.

This. Reaching crucial breakpoints can outweigh the loss of health from a superior or major rune.

Another thing to consider are certain builds like a minion master Necromancer. Each attribute level into death magic substantial increases the offense of that character as the number of minions increases as well as strength and resilience.

MagmaRed · Jul 20, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

You will see many different opinions, as you already have in this topic. Mine is that using Major or Superior runes depends SOLELY on your knowledge and skill. If you know the game well and play the game well, health loss runes won't bother you much, if at all. Hitting the key break points as mentioned by others is key, but you can ignore them as well once you hit certain skill/knowledge levels.

I recommend you start with Minor runes until you get to a point you are comfortable with the game. Then you can add Major/Superior runes based on what you want and need.

Jul 19, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19	#1
kawaSuwi Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2009 Guild: [Ishi] Profession: A/	Superior Rune of [Attribute] I remember when I first started to play GW. If I believe correctly it was apt to adopt the Superior Rune. For a good while now, though, people have opted for the Minor Attribute rune - so as to not have to put up with negative 75HP. As for as I know, a standard solid build is one in which we concentrate on 2 attributes (x and y, respectively) and have Minor runes in both x and y. Maybe this includes 3 attributes. This is besides the point however... My main question is to do with someone making their own build which relies on two attributes. Let us say, Crit Strikes and Dagg Mast. Would people generally go with two minors and not have any HP loss, or would someone have a Sup in there? Thankyou.

Jul 19, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36	#2
Kendil Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sweden	It kinda depends, in PvP it is generally a bad idea to have low health, as you are more vulnarable to spikes. But, if you reach some sort of breakpoint with a minor/sup rune, like that you are able to kill the enemy with your attack chain or that it deals significant more damage, this is for dagger mastery, as it is the attribute that deals the damage. As for critical strikes, you normally want to reach 13, as you then gain significantly more energy. In PvE it is mostly up to what you preffer, as long as you don't die, it is all good

Jul 19, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36	#3
Gennadios Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2009 Profession: N/A	Depends on the build and the format. In PvP, taking sups is almost always suicide. You can usually get away with taking a superior rune in most PvE areas, SS necros and nukers favor the +3 runes I belive. Personally I don't think the extra 5 damage or 2 seconds duration is ever really worth the hit though. If you're asking about Sin runes specifically, I'd say it's a bad idea. Melees tend to take alot of punishment, and Sins in particular are pretty squishy, so I'd go for +1s all around.

Jul 19, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37	#4
Shayne Hawke Departed from Tyria Join Date: May 2007 Guild: Clan Dethryche [dth] Profession: R/	Look at breakpoints in the skill/attributes. If that extra attribute point will give you an extra energy per hit, or an extra second in a five or six second spell, or effects like that, it may be worth using a Major or Superior.

Jul 19, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41	#5
GourangaPizza Krytan Explorer Join Date: Oct 2006 Profession: R/W	It is a waste not to use a superior rune for your weapon if you are a defy pain warrior.

Jul 19, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42	#6
Captain Bulldozer Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: Servants of the Dragon Flames [SODF]	I'd stay away from the superior attribute runes except for farming purposes, generally speaking. However, I have been able to get away with using major runes on paragons and warriors... the health loss is easier to make up with a shield + one handed weap as well as the extra armor. For anything else, especially Dervs and Sins, I'd say stay away from the -75 health.

Jul 19, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19	#7
Chthon Grotto Attendant Join Date: Apr 2007	In PvP, there's no question that Sup. runes are a big no-no. Your opponents should have the foresight to build with significant amounts of armor-ignoring damage, the coordination to spike, and the intelligence to figure out that your max hp is low. A Sup. rune is going to get you killed. In PvE, it's a lot murkier. There's a tradeoff between efficiency and survivability. Essentially you must choose whether the increased DPS(/HPS/WhateverPS) the rune gives you is worth dying each time you take damage that otherwise would have left you alive with <75hp. While there's clear cases on either end of the spectrum -- a Sup. Death Magic rune hits absolutely crucial breakpoints for minion skills; a Sup. Swordsmanship rune doesn't hit any meaningful breakpoints and suffers diminishing returns on its inherent effect -- most cases fall somewhere in the middle where questions of teammates, tactics, player skill, and so forth make it impossible to give a one-size-fits-all rule. For the record, many, probably most, of my PvE builds use a Sup. rune. Your mileage may vary.

Jul 19, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19	#8
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	I don't use Supers as a melee because all in all it adds maybe 5 damage per attack skill, and the crits aren't too noticeable in HM. Paragons I don't use because I'm generally under Agressive refrain, and being midliner you're normally hit before casters. Rangers I have minor and super sets, depends on what I'm running. As casters I use supers, minus monk, because you rarely get hit in backline anyway.

Jul 19, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25	#9
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	It also depends somewhat (in PvE) on whether it's NM or HM. In Normal Mode, with any decent sort of healing in the party (even henchies), a superior rune can often just make foes die faster and speed things up. In Hard Mode, it's a bit trickier, and minor runes are much "safer". And, it also, of course, depends somewhat on your build. It depends upon how many skills you are using that actually use a profession's attribute. These days, so many builds include PvE skills that it's really overkill to make a small increase in only one or two skills by using a Superior Rune.

Jul 19, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30	#10
Kerwyn Nasilan Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: WHERE DO YOU THINK Profession: W/	Use sup on everything, cause damage is good amirite.

Jul 19, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46	#11
dasmitchies Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2007 Guild: Sacred Forge Knights Profession: W/P	The only Superior Runes worth using are death magi, earth magic, restoration, and shadow arts. The rest are just used to make a 55hp variant.

Jul 20, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00	#12
teh bestest is here Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2007	On my warrior all i do is farm FoW usually Solo(beach) and i use 2 superior runes. That leaves me at 361 hp, and i almost never die, though if your teaming, id say 1 superior Max.

Jul 20, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55	#13
RedDog91 Desert Nomad Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Farming for Nick gifts Profession: R/	if i use a build centered on 2 attributes, i generally craft a +1 helmet of (x attribute) then apply a +3 (y attribute) to that. then i balance attribute points accordingly.

Jul 20, 2009, 08:19 AM // 08:19	#14
subarucar Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Zealand Guild: None	I usually use a Minor rune, sometimes I will use a major if it helps me reach a breakpoint on an important skill. For certain builds such as farming builds or suicide nukers in JQ/FA I will use superiors.

Jul 20, 2009, 08:23 AM // 08:23	#15
FengShuiDove Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2007 Guild: Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] Profession: A/	Minors on physicals, both PvE and PvP. Superiors are decent on casters in PvE, but not PvP. Breakpoints are always something to consider, but giving up health to hit a breakpoint is generally less effective than juggling attributes/armor.

Jul 20, 2009, 10:03 AM // 10:03	#16
FireWhale Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2009 Profession: W/E	I agree with the advice on using whatever you prefer, as long as you don't die. For me, I use a sup on some chars, and only minors on others. totally depends on how I'm feeling that day...

Jul 20, 2009, 10:19 AM // 10:19	#17
Feyra Aranor Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Africa Guild: The Blade of the Silver Phoenix Profession: E/Mo	Sidebar: When I started out 3 years ago, I saw runes for sale in Old Ascalon - I thought great !! Attribute +3, and missed the -75. Bought superior fast casting, illusion magic and domination magic runes. Went out to hunt, had only 15 HP, got killed after about two blows, and Alesia henchie couldn't ressurect me! I had to zone back to Ascalon city and salvage the armor to get rid of the runes, as I didn't have the money to replace them with +1's...

Jul 20, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21	#19
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	You will see many different opinions, as you already have in this topic. Mine is that using Major or Superior runes depends SOLELY on your knowledge and skill. If you know the game well and play the game well, health loss runes won't bother you much, if at all. Hitting the key break points as mentioned by others is key, but you can ignore them as well once you hit certain skill/knowledge levels. I recommend you start with Minor runes until you get to a point you are comfortable with the game. Then you can add Major/Superior runes based on what you want and need.